George has a good sense why the Ordinariate has short legs. If a person wants to be Roman, there are usually a number of local options; Spanish, Filipino, etc. I took the announcement by Pope Benedict as a sign of disdain for Abp. Rowan Williams’s wishy washy theology as he made the papal visit to Great Britain.
During the formation time before the details were released, the blogs were filled with fervor to bring the Anglican patrimony to the Roman church including the Latin mass (think about that for moment). A first wave would surely be followed by a second wave. Not even ‘boy love’ would slow the flow to Rome. It turned out not many wanted to go and Rome didn’t want any Anglican priests or bishops without them subjected to indoctrination camps. Not DOA but barely twitching.
This Amazon thing is not new. It’s the ugly head of Liberation Theology rearing its head. Back in the 70s, Jesuits had no problem incorporating a little Voodoo or Santeria for the locals sake.
I find endemic Catholicism within the rabble very interesting especially the acknowledgement of the First Commandment. Most of the Latin baseball players in MLB have a nonintrusive way of giving thanks, a sign to heaven, for any success on field. Some will say superstition. I think not. Others will point out that some are not good people. True. But, they acknowledge God their creator unlike some of the good bishops, priests, scholars, theologians, and academics who are always looking to denigrate our Lord or nuance him or redefine him to the myth of the day.
I think George made a bit of a fool of himself in this episode. He clearly does not understand what the Ordinariates are about.
I think we will need to forgive George. Hard to understand why he got so exercised on the point. It is not like the Vatican parked tanks on his lawn. ALL the people who went to the Ordinariate were leaving TEC anyway, and were not headed to ACNA. If anyone should be mad, it would be the Continuum- which is the logical alternative for the Ordinariate. I guess I would counsel that if one wishes to be upset over this, one should be upset with Justin Welby and Welby’s remarks that being Anglican is no big deal and doesn’t make much difference vs Catholicism or some other denomination.
Given the outcome of the 50 year pogrom against Anglo Catholcism in TEC, there are hardly any left- so the meme within TEC is that the Ordinariate is some sort of invasion of Anglican space. The Ordinariate is there for the hundreds of clergy deposed and thousands of parishioners driven out. The people who went wanted to go. Given the discrimination shown against Anglo Catholics generally and potential ordinands in 80% of the dioceses, it should come as no surprise that they took advantage of such harbor as was available in the storm. Even ACNA is increasingly unwelcoming, as we either are “misogynists” for refusing women clergy or “too Catholic” or “Papist.”
Speaking for England, where I live, members of the Ordinariate are certainly not Catholic-light in any sense. Most would probably say that they are more Catholic than the Catholics. in matters of faith. A better description would be to call them Catholics who have a yearning for Evensong.
George is also quite wrong about it being impossible for the Catholic Church to finance married clergy. In England at least 10% of Catholic priests are former C of E clergy and they all manage to get along. Various ways of financing them have been found. Very often they are appointed as prison or hospital chaplains, which are posts that carry a salary. Some are part time academics or lawyers and have income from their secular activities. In the case of Ordinariate clergy, many are looking after a diocesan parish as well as their own group so have two incomes. However, the most reliable source of income is their C of E pension. Part of the genius of the Ordinariate in England is that not only does the C of E provide the clergy, but it also pays them. Pope Benedict was no fool!
The other curious thing that George implied, if he did not say it precisely, is that the Ordinariates in England are a failure, because they have a high ratio of priests to lay people. In my book that is a measure of success.
George has a good sense why the Ordinariate has short legs. If a person wants to be Roman, there are usually a number of local options; Spanish, Filipino, etc. I took the announcement by Pope Benedict as a sign of disdain for Abp. Rowan Williams’s wishy washy theology as he made the papal visit to Great Britain.
During the formation time before the details were released, the blogs were filled with fervor to bring the Anglican patrimony to the Roman church including the Latin mass (think about that for moment). A first wave would surely be followed by a second wave. Not even ‘boy love’ would slow the flow to Rome. It turned out not many wanted to go and Rome didn’t want any Anglican priests or bishops without them subjected to indoctrination camps. Not DOA but barely twitching.
This Amazon thing is not new. It’s the ugly head of Liberation Theology rearing its head. Back in the 70s, Jesuits had no problem incorporating a little Voodoo or Santeria for the locals sake.
I find endemic Catholicism within the rabble very interesting especially the acknowledgement of the First Commandment. Most of the Latin baseball players in MLB have a nonintrusive way of giving thanks, a sign to heaven, for any success on field. Some will say superstition. I think not. Others will point out that some are not good people. True. But, they acknowledge God their creator unlike some of the good bishops, priests, scholars, theologians, and academics who are always looking to denigrate our Lord or nuance him or redefine him to the myth of the day.
I think George made a bit of a fool of himself in this episode. He clearly does not understand what the Ordinariates are about.
I think we will need to forgive George. Hard to understand why he got so exercised on the point. It is not like the Vatican parked tanks on his lawn. ALL the people who went to the Ordinariate were leaving TEC anyway, and were not headed to ACNA. If anyone should be mad, it would be the Continuum- which is the logical alternative for the Ordinariate. I guess I would counsel that if one wishes to be upset over this, one should be upset with Justin Welby and Welby’s remarks that being Anglican is no big deal and doesn’t make much difference vs Catholicism or some other denomination.
Given the outcome of the 50 year pogrom against Anglo Catholcism in TEC, there are hardly any left- so the meme within TEC is that the Ordinariate is some sort of invasion of Anglican space. The Ordinariate is there for the hundreds of clergy deposed and thousands of parishioners driven out. The people who went wanted to go. Given the discrimination shown against Anglo Catholics generally and potential ordinands in 80% of the dioceses, it should come as no surprise that they took advantage of such harbor as was available in the storm. Even ACNA is increasingly unwelcoming, as we either are “misogynists” for refusing women clergy or “too Catholic” or “Papist.”
Speaking for England, where I live, members of the Ordinariate are certainly not Catholic-light in any sense. Most would probably say that they are more Catholic than the Catholics. in matters of faith. A better description would be to call them Catholics who have a yearning for Evensong.
George is also quite wrong about it being impossible for the Catholic Church to finance married clergy. In England at least 10% of Catholic priests are former C of E clergy and they all manage to get along. Various ways of financing them have been found. Very often they are appointed as prison or hospital chaplains, which are posts that carry a salary. Some are part time academics or lawyers and have income from their secular activities. In the case of Ordinariate clergy, many are looking after a diocesan parish as well as their own group so have two incomes. However, the most reliable source of income is their C of E pension. Part of the genius of the Ordinariate in England is that not only does the C of E provide the clergy, but it also pays them. Pope Benedict was no fool!
The other curious thing that George implied, if he did not say it precisely, is that the Ordinariates in England are a failure, because they have a high ratio of priests to lay people. In my book that is a measure of success.
They are Anglican-light. At best.