Stop for a second, we seem to be missing a MAJOR piece of information.
Which provinces were at the last Global South meeting?
ALL Gafcon provinces are members of the Global South.
The new GS Covenant document was written by a committee including Bob Duncan, Phil Ashey, and a number of other Gafcon members.
According to the previous report from AI, there were 16 provinces participating in the last GS meeting- not clear whether the 16 included ACNA and the new church in Brazil (both attended), or the count just ACC members? Does the 16 exclude the number of Gafcon provinces were in attendance? On paper, Gafcon primates are a majority of the GS primates.
So, as I responded on the thread on Dr. Noll’s latest paper, I am confused over the distinction being made between GS and Gafcon- yes, they are different groups, but by all accounts I can find, the GS is Gafcon with 6 or 8 additional provinces. More moderate, yes, but not seeming to be at odds with one another.
That said, I think that George’s commentary on the “generational” nature of the conservative movement is well taken. One of the things I have noted as a problem over the years is that Global South primates often serve for very short terms- 5 years being common. By the time a GS or Gafcon primate figures out what’s going on, he is retiring or returning to diocesan duties.
It is important to recognize also that some of the non-Gafcon provinces have constitutional requirements that they maintain Anglican Communion membership- and/or maintain communion with the Church of England or the Archbishop of Canterbury.
Let’s also recognize that the covenant that was proposed in Cairo has MUCH more in common with the original Anglican covenant proposed in the early 2000’s by Drexel Gomez and Mouneer Anis. That is to say, it is not the neutered document that was left over after Williams and Gregory Cameron re-wrote half a dozen times in hopes of pleasing TEC. This new proposal is what the Global South was trying to achieve 15 years ago.
Kevin: I would suggest you interview retired ACNA Archbishop Bob Duncan or Dr Stephen Noll and get their take on the relationship between the GS and Gafcon, etc..
GAFCON and the Global South threw North America a life line. I hope we don’t sink them in the process. At some point, bishops need to focus on the local business at hand (God’s business) rather than all of the international intrigue.
Apostolic succession, episcopate, the priesthood, and importance of bishops have been explained to me patiently over the years. I agree with the theory. Never see much in practice including the modern reformers. I think the Holy Spirit is draining the Anglican swamp.
Meanwhile we hear virtually no news coming from ACNA.
I tend to agree with McMahon’s hunches below. I have spent a fair amount of time in the midst of this present Gafcon-GS tension, over the past 15 years, as president of ACI. I do not view the dynamics in the same way being discussed here. SE Asia would be a good place to focus on. Very strong growth, no interest in being pro or con ABC. The GS is a large bloc. Larger is better than smaller, when Canterbury is beginning to lose hold, manifestly, on the global AC. There may be political (soi disant erastian) reasons for tensions, but I do not think this is the issue. Less still church v polis. Mouneer has no problem being strident in opposition to the ABC. At lssue, to my mind, is: in the midst of a dying AC, what is the largest possible bloc to move forward? Answer: GS. That is also why Foley Beach is on board. This is not anti-Gafcon (though people like Stephen Noll may register this concern given their love of Jerusalem Declaration) but pro-GS as a bigger and more influential reality, esp in the face of obvious Canterbury (CofE more widely) vulnerability and decline.
Stop for a second, we seem to be missing a MAJOR piece of information.
Which provinces were at the last Global South meeting?
ALL Gafcon provinces are members of the Global South.
The new GS Covenant document was written by a committee including Bob Duncan, Phil Ashey, and a number of other Gafcon members.
According to the previous report from AI, there were 16 provinces participating in the last GS meeting- not clear whether the 16 included ACNA and the new church in Brazil (both attended), or the count just ACC members? Does the 16 exclude the number of Gafcon provinces were in attendance? On paper, Gafcon primates are a majority of the GS primates.
So, as I responded on the thread on Dr. Noll’s latest paper, I am confused over the distinction being made between GS and Gafcon- yes, they are different groups, but by all accounts I can find, the GS is Gafcon with 6 or 8 additional provinces. More moderate, yes, but not seeming to be at odds with one another.
That said, I think that George’s commentary on the “generational” nature of the conservative movement is well taken. One of the things I have noted as a problem over the years is that Global South primates often serve for very short terms- 5 years being common. By the time a GS or Gafcon primate figures out what’s going on, he is retiring or returning to diocesan duties.
It is important to recognize also that some of the non-Gafcon provinces have constitutional requirements that they maintain Anglican Communion membership- and/or maintain communion with the Church of England or the Archbishop of Canterbury.
Let’s also recognize that the covenant that was proposed in Cairo has MUCH more in common with the original Anglican covenant proposed in the early 2000’s by Drexel Gomez and Mouneer Anis. That is to say, it is not the neutered document that was left over after Williams and Gregory Cameron re-wrote half a dozen times in hopes of pleasing TEC. This new proposal is what the Global South was trying to achieve 15 years ago.
Kevin: I would suggest you interview retired ACNA Archbishop Bob Duncan or Dr Stephen Noll and get their take on the relationship between the GS and Gafcon, etc..
GAFCON and the Global South threw North America a life line. I hope we don’t sink them in the process. At some point, bishops need to focus on the local business at hand (God’s business) rather than all of the international intrigue.
Apostolic succession, episcopate, the priesthood, and importance of bishops have been explained to me patiently over the years. I agree with the theory. Never see much in practice including the modern reformers. I think the Holy Spirit is draining the Anglican swamp.
Meanwhile we hear virtually no news coming from ACNA.
I tend to agree with McMahon’s hunches below. I have spent a fair amount of time in the midst of this present Gafcon-GS tension, over the past 15 years, as president of ACI. I do not view the dynamics in the same way being discussed here. SE Asia would be a good place to focus on. Very strong growth, no interest in being pro or con ABC. The GS is a large bloc. Larger is better than smaller, when Canterbury is beginning to lose hold, manifestly, on the global AC. There may be political (soi disant erastian) reasons for tensions, but I do not think this is the issue. Less still church v polis. Mouneer has no problem being strident in opposition to the ABC. At lssue, to my mind, is: in the midst of a dying AC, what is the largest possible bloc to move forward? Answer: GS. That is also why Foley Beach is on board. This is not anti-Gafcon (though people like Stephen Noll may register this concern given their love of Jerusalem Declaration) but pro-GS as a bigger and more influential reality, esp in the face of obvious Canterbury (CofE more widely) vulnerability and decline.